Legislature(2003 - 2004)
03/08/2004 01:12 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 319-REMOTE REC.CABIN SITE SALES/LOTTERY SALE CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 319, "An Act relating to the disposal of state land by lottery; and relating to the disposal, including sale or lease, of remote recreational cabin sites." [Before the committee was Version S, adopted as a work draft on 3/01/04.] Number 2067 JIM POUND, Staff to Representative Hugh Fate, Alaska State Legislature, noted that the bill had been previously heard in committee. He said he was available to answer questions. CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM said she had heard some concerns raised about services that people may or may not request or feel entitled to in particular areas, such as schools, roads, emergency services, and so forth. MR. POUND said there is specific language in existing statute that deals with that issue and basically says [the state] is not responsible for those things in remote cabin locations. He said he didn't have a copy of that section of statute with him. Number 1970 NANCY WELCH, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), testified. She said the statute being asked about is AS 38.04.010(b). The committee took an at-ease from 2:21 p.m. to 2:26 p.m. CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM asked Mr. Pound for clarification on the issue. MR. POUND directed attention to AS 38.04.010(b), which read in part: State land that is located beyond the range of existing schools and other necessary public services, or that is located where development of sources of employment is improbable, may be made available for seasonal recreational purposes or for low density settlement. The seasonal recreation use or low-density settlement shall have sufficient separation between residences so that public services will not be necessary or expected. The availability of timber, firewood, and water resources shall be considered in determining separation between residences. CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM said the bill has a rather large fiscal note. She said the next committee of referral is the House Finance Committee, and she is confident "that they will go through this with a fine-tooth comb." Number 1839 CO-CHAIR MASEK moved to report CSHB 319, Version 23-LS0477\S, Bullock, 2/25/04, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes, and asked for unanimous consent. Number 1818 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO objected for purposes of discussion. He called attention to the following language in AS 38.04.010(b): "The seasonal recreation use or low density settlement shall have sufficient separation between residences so that public services will not be necessary or expected." He said he didn't know how the [legislature] could even determine what would be expected, and that people always expect things once they are there. He asked, "Have you ever found a place where people didn't expect you to stay away or government to come in or somebody take care of me one way or another?" He stated that that hasn't happened in his experience. MR. POUND said he is inclined to say that Representative Gatto is correct in his assessment, but he believes that this statutory language does protect the state and ultimately if the site is within a municipality or borough, that it would also protect "them" as well. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if it is known or suspected that that's the situation. MR. POUND said past experience is that no one in a remote cabin site has expected to have any support from the state as far as utilities and/or schools. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if it is clear in the bill or in regulation that "you sign away your right to having the borough or the community or somebody establish schools or fire stations ...." He said he can foresee the state getting "hung up pretty bad" as soon as 10 kids show up and "somebody says I think we have a right to a high school here." MR. POUND noted that he had not seen all of the language that is involved in the state contract. He said the little bit of contractual language in this bill is correcting some of that contract and he would suspect that the department would have that language within its contract. Number 1674 MS. WELCH directed attention to AS 38.95.300, a disclaimer applicable to state land disposals, which read: Except as otherwise specifically provided, nothing in this title (1) obligates the state to provide services to land that is disposed of by the state, or any grantee of the state, or is the subject of any disposal program; (2) limits the authority of the state to dispose of land or any interest in land or resources in the area of the current disposal, provides any exclusive right or interest in the area of the disposal, or implies or requires that any disposals made will be limited in type or any other manner. MS. WELCH said it is a broad exclusion, but it doesn't mean that people won't come in and ask. She said she believes it gives the legislature the authority to "go back and say but here's the law." REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked what happens when it conflicts with existing law that says if a community has 10 children, it is entitled to a school. He asked if [AS 38.95.300] would supercede that law or if it would take precedence over previous law because it was signed into law later. MS. WELCH said she could not provide legal advice on that question; it would be something that the legislature would have to work out. She explained that in past land disposals most subdivisions have been located close to existing communities, so the schools expand or adapt according to the type of use that is occurring there. She said most of the remote parcel program areas would not see many schools go up in those areas, so she would assume that it would still be the same. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if there were some that did. MS. WELCH replied that she did not have first-hand knowledge of it, but it is "kind of one of those disclaimers." Number 1537 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO withdrew his objection. CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM asked if there was further objection. There being no further objection, CSHB 319(RES) was reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.
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